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controversial thank you get away

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so usually I when I present I present

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some experimental results on using

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remote viewing to predict the stock

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market or the cybot ecstatic about last

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time using psy for practical purposes

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this time I'm going to be talking about

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a pet peeve about quantum mechanics and

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this is something that isn't just my pet

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peeve because as soon as I put out the

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title of the talk quite a few people

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came and said yeah yeah yeah that needs

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to be said again so I'm not saying

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anything breakthrough or

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very dramatic but I'm just saying

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something that a lot of us have been

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thinking so quantum mechanics has been

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invoked for all sorts of things one

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thing is in my lab my lab is called the

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quantum engineering lab and we use

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quantum mechanics to produce little

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widgets that do things based on quantum

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principles but quantum mechanics has

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also been invoked for healing does it

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really involve healing and once your

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healing why not quantum sleep and once

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you're doing that why not toothpaste

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once you're doing that

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wait a minute a spa ice cream

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quantum real estate management quantum

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restaurant and bar these are all real

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things

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quantum auto sales there must be very

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little cars quantum construction now

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this is really getting silly quantum

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sealant can it get any lower than this

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yes it can

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quantum toilets

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so I'm not going to be talking about any

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of those what I want to talk about is

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quantum as applies as applied to psy and

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so psy has quantum has been vocht in psy

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for several different applications and

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several different approaches to dominant

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ways are one one is the observer effect

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which I'll talk about for psychokinesis

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and wavefunction collapse and the second

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is entanglement for non-local

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information transfer at the end I'll

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also talk about the inverse and that is

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how psy might be used in quantum

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mechanics so let's talk about

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psychokinesis we all know about that for

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you we have some sort of a random system

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that's fundamentally random it could be

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rolling dice flipping a coin an

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electronic random number generator we

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use intention and the intention gives

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rise to an effect that goes in the

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direction of intention so the question

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is is that a quantum effect and it has

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been interpreted as a quantum effect for

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quite a while and this is the observer

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effect where in quantum mechanics you

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have a wave function which is in a

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superposition of different States it

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collapses to a single state when its

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observed but traditional quantum

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mechanics calls that a detection

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perspective however there are some

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deviating views the ones that are known

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best are from Vannoy Minh and Wigner who

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interpreted it as being the

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consciousness collapses the wavefunction

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and gives you this specific state that

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essentially every system can be looked

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at a subsumed in another system until

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you get to consciousness and at that

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point consciousness collapses the

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wavefunction so Wigner wrote the quantum

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description of objects is influenced by

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impressions entering my consciousness

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and this has been applied by psy - psy

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research by a number of different people

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Helmut Schmidt did it Evan Harris Walker

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stop-out Cooper and a number of others

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and so the question is does the does

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this really work

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and so if you take a look here at an

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experiment by Schmidt so in this

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experiment

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Schmidt pre-recorded some random

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information and then afterwards had an

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observer observe the information with

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the intention of driving it in a certain

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certain direction and then he had

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another observer observe it again and so

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the data that goes up which shows

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essentially the cumulative deviation is

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the number of runs the data that goes up

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is where a strongly psy successful

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observer observed the data and intended

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to go up then later a non successful psy

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observer looked at it and it didn't it

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didn't affect it the curve that does not

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go up the bottom one is where the

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unsuccessful psy observer first observed

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it so inter Shem it interprets this as

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sort of a collapse of a wave function

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once it's in a particular state then it

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can no longer be affected even if

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somebody else looks at it again and this

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has been repeated in various sorts of

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forms one repetition was by Biermann in

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2006 and he found an unsuccessful

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replication others have found some

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successful replications in various forms

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the really the classic case is

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Schrodinger's cat Schrodinger proposed

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this to show how observe how absurd the

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observer effect was but it's actually

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been taken as the opposite as an example

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of how the observer effect could work

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where you've got a cap cat in a closed

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capsule with a vial and that vial

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releases a poisonous gas or not

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depending on a quantum were kind of

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mechanical random process and the idea

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is that the cat is in an indeterminate

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state until you open the vial look at it

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and at that point the cat will have been

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dead for a certain amount of time or

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will be alive or not so it's in it's in

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a cat state it's now actually called

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that and so this is this is an idea of

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again observation creating a

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collapse of a wavefunction another

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example that's commonly invoked as the

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Young's double-slit experiment so in the

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double it slid experiment we've got

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light going through two slits because of

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the path difference between these two

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slits you either get constructive or

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destructive interference of the waves on

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a screen behind it and so you end up

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with a set of fringes where this read

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this is the classic experiment where it

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becomes quantum mechanical is when you

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bring it down to an extremely low

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intensity where you just have one photon

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at a time coming through and at that

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point you still get the double slit

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experiment but you can't know which slit

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the photon went through if you put a

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detector there to measure which slit the

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photon went through the effect goes away

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so that's also interpreted as a

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measurement makes the effect go away

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makes the the indeterminacy the

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wave-like properties go away now this

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has been carried through to various AI

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experiments and Dean Radin talked about

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some of his experiments he's done the

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most extensive array of experiments but

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others have done some too at the pair

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lab his'n and Jeffers and others have

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done these experiments and so this is a

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I pulled some data from a 2012 paper and

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in this data what you see is the fringe

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visibility as a function of sample and

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so here there are some observers or some

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meditators and so they concentrate on

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the apparatus periodically

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when they concentrate on the apparatus

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the visibility goes down meaning that

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that this effect seems to disappear and

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so there seems to be this kind of

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observer effect because there they may

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not even be intending the visibility to

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go down all they're doing is essentially

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imposing their concentration and

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consciousness on this and the effect

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works and you see something now is this

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in fact a quantum observer effect so we

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see the collapse of the quantum wave

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function from conscious observation in

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the double slit experiment the observer

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or detector can cause only one direction

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of effect in other words if you observe

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it the you're going to see a reduction

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in Flynn in visibility of the fringes on

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the other hand we also see this sort of

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effect in other types of experiments

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such as dice coin flips random number

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generators where we can bias the output

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in one direction or another

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that's no longer possibly the the

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quantum observer effect that there

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you're actually applying an intention

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that pushes it in one direction or

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another so how do we know that the

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double slit is a conscious observer

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effect and that the dice aren't to me

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they look very much the same and the

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intention of the experimenter and the

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people looking at the effect is for the

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collapse of the wavefunction or for the

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double slit experiment to produce what

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you want it to produce and so it does so

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does this demonstrate the collapse and

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the quantum wave function so the is

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there some sort of a unique response

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that shows that it is uniquely a quantum

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mechanical behavior as opposed to just

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our usual as a quote-unquote

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psychokinetic behavior where we apply an

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intention to a random system and it

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manifests or are we simply acting on any

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random system the way that psy acts on

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any random system we carried out an

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experiment earlier in 2007 at the

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University of Colorado where we had an

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incandescent light source going through

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a piece of glass to two detectors and so

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part of the light was reflected part is

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transmitted and we had observers trying

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to either increase the amount of

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transmission or decrease the amount of

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using their and transmission using their

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intention and in fact it worked and we

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got depending on how you look at it some

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statistically-significant expects and

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it's been replicated but we never really

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did this in a deep way this is very much

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like the other sorts of experiments but

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here we're biasing it in a direction

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we're not just turning it on and off

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using our intention so I would say here

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is this do to conscious collapse of a

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wavefunction Elif I know I really can't

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tell and you can't there's there's no

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signature here yes you do something and

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it works but what is it you - I don't

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know

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so is consciousness collapse of the

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wavefunction accepted physics absolutely

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not the it's a it's a minority of

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physicists who would take the von

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Neumann Wigner approach and in fact

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there are other quantum mechanical

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formulations and other interpretations

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that don't even need a conscious

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observer effect that don't even need an

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observer effect at all stochastic

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electrodynamics which is a pet theory

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that I like quite a bit that's based on

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zero-point energy fluctuations doesn't

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need an observer effect Kramer's

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transactional interpretation which is a

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beautiful description of a much more

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intuitively acceptable description of

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the standard mathematics of quantum

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mechanics rather than the Copenhagen

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interpretation it doesn't have an

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observer you just have a forward going

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wave in a backward going wave they make

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a transaction and in fact in general

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other people have said this Biermann

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more recently said all you need is time

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reversal you don't need any sort of

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observer effect so let's take a look at

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another case here and that has to do

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with information transfer and so I said

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that I was going to talk about quantum

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entanglement is the second thing so we

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know that there's telepathy for a long

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long time I show here a picture of Upton

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Sinclair's book in which he describes

279
00:12:43,059 --> 00:12:41,089
transmission of images

280
00:12:45,249 --> 00:12:43,069
from himself to his wife who was in

281
00:12:47,199 --> 00:12:45,259
another room or another building and she

282
00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:47,209
drew them and he if you haven't looked

283
00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:48,769
at this book look at it it's just

284
00:12:54,730 --> 00:12:52,069
amazing then there's also remote viewing

285
00:12:58,090 --> 00:12:54,740
or clairvoyance here we have an example

286
00:12:59,769 --> 00:12:58,100
of a person who was in the Stargate

287
00:13:01,480 --> 00:12:59,779
project and he happens to be sitting in

288
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,490
this room as well he doesn't look like

289
00:13:10,259 --> 00:13:04,160
that anymore he doesn't have any hair

290
00:13:13,389 --> 00:13:10,269
now or we have the example of Daryl BEM

291
00:13:17,079 --> 00:13:13,399
premonitions experiment which are very

292
00:13:19,809 --> 00:13:17,089
robustly show some sort of these effects

293
00:13:22,989 --> 00:13:19,819
so quantum entanglement has been invoked

294
00:13:25,150 --> 00:13:22,999
as a possible mechanism here let's talk

295
00:13:27,249 --> 00:13:25,160
about quantum entanglement the easiest

296
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,259
way to talk about quantum entanglement

297
00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:29,600
is with the East EPR experiment so

298
00:13:34,299 --> 00:13:31,220
that's the einstein-podolsky-rosen

299
00:13:36,970 --> 00:13:34,309
experiment in which Einstein proposed

300
00:13:38,579 --> 00:13:36,980
the idea to show how silly it was a

301
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:38,589
little bit like Schrodinger with his cat

302
00:13:43,449 --> 00:13:41,600
and so the basic idea here is we have a

303
00:13:45,610 --> 00:13:43,459
source shown as the red object in the

304
00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:45,620
middle and this is a random source that

305
00:13:51,059 --> 00:13:47,870
sends out two particles in opposite

306
00:13:54,669 --> 00:13:51,069
directions let's call them photons and

307
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:54,679
these two photons are linked because by

308
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:57,170
the conservation of momentum they have

309
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:01,120
to have complementary that's not

310
00:14:07,929 --> 00:14:04,089
complementing let me put it that way

311
00:14:10,119 --> 00:14:07,939
polarizations to preserve momentum so if

312
00:14:12,549 --> 00:14:10,129
you on one side on the left side have a

313
00:14:15,669 --> 00:14:12,559
polarizer that's up down and you measure

314
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:15,679
that the photon goes through then if on

315
00:14:23,139 --> 00:14:18,410
the other side you have a polarizer that

316
00:14:25,809 --> 00:14:23,149
would let the the allowed other particle

317
00:14:27,489 --> 00:14:25,819
to come through you also will find that

318
00:14:32,019 --> 00:14:27,499
it goes through a hundred percent of the

319
00:14:34,569 --> 00:14:32,029
time if you then rotate the left head

320
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:34,579
the polarizer on the left to some other

321
00:14:40,030 --> 00:14:37,730
angle then you change the statistics of

322
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:40,040
whether the light is going to come

323
00:14:45,660 --> 00:14:42,110
through the polarizer on the right-hand

324
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:45,670
side and so there is this sort of effect

325
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,079
where you've got action at a distance

326
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:50,000
and it's instantaneous over as much

327
00:14:54,730 --> 00:14:52,370
distance as you want however its

328
00:14:56,130 --> 00:14:54,740
correlation it's not causation

329
00:14:59,639 --> 00:14:56,140
there's no communication of information

330
00:15:02,530 --> 00:14:59,649
how do we know because in each case

331
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:02,540
since this is a random source that's

332
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,209
producing these things there's a 50%

333
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:06,800
chance that the light is going to go

334
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:09,680
through each polarizer no matter which

335
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,310
way you orient the polarisers and so

336
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:16,160
it's only after the experiment is done

337
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,110
and you go back go to the left-hand side

338
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:20,240
and say did it go through here then you

339
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:22,010
can correlate it with oh yes it went

340
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:23,450
through here on the right hand side

341
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:25,850
that's correlation it's not causation

342
00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:27,980
and it's due to the randomness of the

343
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:35,420
source so then I would say that in in it

344
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:36,950
actually should stay here for a second

345
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:40,490
that this cannot be used in the case of

346
00:15:44,019 --> 00:15:42,230
for example a mother waking up in the

347
00:15:47,079 --> 00:15:44,029
night and saying oh no my son is in

348
00:15:49,630 --> 00:15:47,089
trouble when her son over in a distant

349
00:15:52,630 --> 00:15:49,640
City had a car accident there there's

350
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:52,640
genuine information transfer now you can

351
00:15:56,050 --> 00:15:54,290
argue that there's a sort of a

352
00:15:58,449 --> 00:15:56,060
correlation global new global

353
00:15:59,920 --> 00:15:58,459
correlational effect and so on yeah yeah

354
00:16:01,930 --> 00:15:59,930
yeah you can do this but you're really

355
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:01,940
making a pretty complex model at that

356
00:16:09,130 --> 00:16:06,230
point so if we take a look at the

357
00:16:11,079 --> 00:16:09,140
invocation of quantum mechanics to psy

358
00:16:14,410 --> 00:16:11,089
phenomena let's take a look at what the

359
00:16:17,079 --> 00:16:14,420
pair lab has done so they were have

360
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:17,089
always been very careful to invoke

361
00:16:22,269 --> 00:16:19,839
quantum mechanics as an analogy not

362
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:22,279
saying that this is due to quantum

363
00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:25,130
mechanics or you take Dean Raiden's book

364
00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:27,500
on entangled Minds which I still use as

365
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:30,620
the textbook for my course on psy he's

366
00:16:35,949 --> 00:16:33,950
very careful to say that entanglement is

367
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:35,959
not signal transfer that it's only

368
00:16:41,290 --> 00:16:38,089
correlations and you need some other

369
00:16:46,019 --> 00:16:41,300
ingredient if you're going to view this

370
00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:46,029
as a mechanism for teleport for

371
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:50,390
information transfer so in fact what I'm

372
00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:53,290
arguing against is the loose use of

373
00:16:59,800 --> 00:16:56,630
quantum mechanics in the vernacular in

374
00:17:01,930 --> 00:16:59,810
with regard to syphon Amin ah now we can

375
00:17:04,270 --> 00:17:01,940
turn this around by the way and this is

376
00:17:05,030 --> 00:17:04,280
how psy concepts apply to quantum

377
00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:05,040
mechanics

378
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:08,310
if we take randomness so random decay

379
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:11,910
where you've got some some quantum

380
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:13,890
mechanical thing decaying at a random

381
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:17,510
time you say it's quantum mechanically

382
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:21,150
fundamentally random but most of us in

383
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:23,339
this room know that that ain't true

384
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:26,220
that in fact we can use intention to

385
00:17:30,260 --> 00:17:28,590
affect the randomness of something and

386
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:30,270
that it's not random essentially

387
00:17:33,290 --> 00:17:31,770
intention if you like is a hidden

388
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:33,300
variable although I think there are

389
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:34,590
other ways to describe it

390
00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:37,260
so in fact quanta a sigh phenomena

391
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:42,030
definitely does show an issue and modify

392
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:44,280
quantum mechanics another case is

393
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:47,160
retrocausality and entanglement so this

394
00:17:54,250 --> 00:17:49,170
was described by a de student of

395
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:54,260
debroglie Costa de Beauregard in the mid

396
00:17:58,100 --> 00:17:56,610
twentieth century and then Charles leer

397
00:18:00,830 --> 00:17:58,110
at the SS he has written a couple of

398
00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:00,840
papers on it as well basically the idea

399
00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:02,700
here's the famous slide again with

400
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:05,820
quantum entanglement if you take a look

401
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:07,860
at that source and say the source sends

402
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,050
something out to the left you rotate

403
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:13,200
that polarizer now if that rotation of

404
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:16,050
the polarizer then is transmitted

405
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:19,050
backwards in time to the source so that

406
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:21,510
the source can now send out an encoded

407
00:18:27,230 --> 00:18:24,690
photon to the right hand side then

408
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:27,240
you're using retro causation to have to

409
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:31,260
get rid of action at a distance you're

410
00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:33,390
getting retro causation to get rid of

411
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,140
this spooky effect and it makes so much

412
00:18:42,740 --> 00:18:39,360
sense everything all of a sudden falls

413
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:42,750
into place with this explanation I came

414
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:45,930
across a video of Costa de Beauregard

415
00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:48,210
and another physicist talking about this

416
00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:49,830
it was on YouTube and I just came across

417
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:53,430
it a couple of months ago and the

418
00:18:59,390 --> 00:18:56,850
interviewer asked them why has this not

419
00:19:01,310 --> 00:18:59,400
entered the mainstream of quantum

420
00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:01,320
mechanics it's such it's it's a much

421
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:05,670
more clean explanation than the muddy

422
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:09,510
Copenhagen interpretation and de boracay

423
00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:13,110
and what they said is the reason it

424
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:13,820
hasn't

425
00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:16,130
is that if you introduce retrocausality

426
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:18,910
into physics it opens the door to

427
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,710
parapsychology and the physics community

428
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:23,840
doesn't want to hear about that

429
00:19:32,110 --> 00:19:28,850
I found that amusing okay so there is a

430
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:32,120
real need in Sai for theoretical

431
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:33,890
foundations it's it's we're really

432
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:38,090
lacking it however when we are looking

433
00:19:42,790 --> 00:19:39,050
for models

434
00:19:45,610 --> 00:19:42,800
let's look rather than for global models

435
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:45,620
that are very loose let's look for

436
00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:48,320
precise models that are testable where

437
00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:51,380
we can use poplars falsifiability

438
00:19:56,890 --> 00:19:54,200
approach if we don't have something that

439
00:19:59,890 --> 00:19:56,900
has quantitative predictions that we can

440
00:20:03,100 --> 00:19:59,900
falsify then we haven't said anything at

441
00:20:06,790 --> 00:20:03,110
all and what I'm asking for

442
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:06,800
gasp is reductionism and I know that's a

443
00:20:11,260 --> 00:20:08,690
dirty word in our community because we

444
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:11,270
take a holistic approach but don't throw

445
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:12,890
out the baby with the bathwater

446
00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:15,290
there are times to use a reductionist

447
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:18,260
approach as well to make precise models

448
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:20,690
that give us pieces of what's happening

449
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:24,210
that we can then build up thank you

450
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,880
please explain to me how you can have an

451
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:42,960
experiment that doesn't eventually have

452
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:45,390
an observer no matter how far removed so

453
00:20:48,050 --> 00:20:46,620
I don't quite understand how you're

454
00:20:50,570 --> 00:20:48,060
going to have you know you could say

455
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:50,580
there's no observer effect at some

456
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:52,260
indeterminate time thank you for asking

457
00:20:58,430 --> 00:20:56,280
is that so yes I agree with you if we

458
00:21:00,590 --> 00:20:58,440
ever know about that experiment it most

459
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,600
certainly has an observer what I'm

460
00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:03,120
saying is that we don't know that it's

461
00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:06,270
the observer effect that caused the

462
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:08,520
psychokinesis to occur in a certain

463
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:09,870
direction there's no particular

464
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,050
signature of that versus just intention

465
00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:15,480
causes a random thing to happen the way

466
00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:19,590
we want Hey I didn't think that was so

467
00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:20,670
controversial but I thought it was

468
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:24,360
really cool and I wanted to say you know

469
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,340
Hugh Price and I can't remember the name

470
00:21:31,550 --> 00:21:28,080
if you know that recent article about

471
00:21:33,650 --> 00:21:31,560
cost yeah beautiful article right anyway

472
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:33,660
my email to you price and I said you

473
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:35,490
know so if you think about it this opens

474
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:38,400
the door for retro causal communication

475
00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:41,850
response he said no no no I don't know

476
00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:45,780
no and I said yeah it does and then he

477
00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:49,350
didn't respond so but I just want to

478
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:50,940
just mirror that I had that same

479
00:21:54,110 --> 00:21:52,410
experience if like please please please

480
00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:54,120
don't don't say that yeah because he

481
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:54,990
couldn't he didn't have an actual

482
00:21:59,540 --> 00:21:57,360
response that was you know it's just

483
00:22:05,360 --> 00:21:59,550
sort of an allergy to talking about

484
00:22:08,780 --> 00:22:05,370
anything that might open the door um so

485
00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:08,790
I just wanted to point out something

486
00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:12,830
that people occasionally lose track of

487
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:17,190
the I I agree that that quantum theory

488
00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:20,310
as we have it is is not really an

489
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:24,660
explanation to sign phenomena because

490
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:27,330
even if wavefunction collapse is

491
00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:29,820
producing the effects there is nothing

492
00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:34,440
in in QM that allows you to bias the

493
00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:39,320
collapse in a favoured direction however

494
00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:41,580
quantum theory for all its beauty and

495
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:45,900
power is a theory on the other hand EPR

496
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:48,240
correlations have been experimentally

497
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:51,690
observed they're facts they're not going

498
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:54,720
to go away even if some genius comes up

499
00:23:01,549 --> 00:22:56,490
with a replacement for quantum theory

500
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:01,559
tomorrow and this is why I at least

501
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:03,690
frequently find myself thinking that

502
00:23:14,150 --> 00:23:07,530
whatever whatever connection underlies

503
00:23:17,030 --> 00:23:14,160
the the EPR type correlations may be

504
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:17,040
very important to how psy works even

505
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:18,480
though it's not explained by quantum

506
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,280
theory fully accepted and we really need

507
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:25,200
to invoke those sort of correlations

508
00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:30,210
more precisely in our theory thanks

509
00:23:35,030 --> 00:23:32,190
Garrett even for a very thoughtful talk

510
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:35,040
and I would probably 85% agree with you

511
00:23:40,940 --> 00:23:37,890
because I think we need to be really

512
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:40,950
careful about extrapolating physical

513
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:43,320
facts into the macro world but I think

514
00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:46,440
one point I would like to point out is

515
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,720
that quantum theory is not just the

516
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:53,520
physical theory it is a physical theory

517
00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:55,530
but you can use the basic structure as

518
00:24:01,250 --> 00:23:57,480
we have done in our generalized version

519
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:01,260
to produce a systemic theory that is

520
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:03,720
applicable to systems that have similar

521
00:24:09,020 --> 00:24:06,360
or say isomorphic structures to quantum

522
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:09,030
systems and whenever that happens you

523
00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:11,250
can do that and then you predict as we

524
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:13,470
have shown a generalized form of

525
00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:15,690
entanglement which may be able to

526
00:24:21,169 --> 00:24:17,820
explain at least some of the phenomena

527
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:21,179
and the point here is the basic element

528
00:24:25,220 --> 00:24:23,640
of every quantum formalism is the

529
00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:25,230
handling of non commuting or

530
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:27,390
incompatible operations as you know and

531
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:30,210
I think if you look at consciousness we

532
00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:32,970
have here the prime example of a system

533
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:36,179
for which you need a formalism that can

534
00:24:41,570 --> 00:24:39,000
handle incompatible operations or put

535
00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:41,580
differently a formalism that can handle

536
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:44,160
a situation where the measurement

537
00:24:48,919 --> 00:24:46,770
changes the state of the system and the

538
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:48,929
prime system is consciousness because

539
00:24:51,550 --> 00:24:50,550
whenever you measure consciousness you

540
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:51,560
change this

541
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:53,390
the state of the system so I think there

542
00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:57,440
is a case here to extrapolate not

543
00:25:01,900 --> 00:24:59,450
quantum theory or quantum physics but

544
00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:01,910
the formalism of quantum theory to other

545
00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:03,590
systems and I think that needs to be

546
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:05,240
said that's why I'm here good thank you

547
00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:07,130
I guess a question and maybe this is for

548
00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:09,350
later discussion is when you're

549
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:12,260
generalizing it like this is it quantum

550
00:25:16,030 --> 00:25:14,330
mechanics or is it an analogy of quantum

551
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:16,040
no it's not quantum mechanics it's a

552
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:19,250
general quantum theory ok good that's

553
00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:21,050
what I want to say but therefore I think

554
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,020
you're both right and 15 percent not ok

555
00:25:28,930 --> 00:25:26,320
thank you

556
00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:28,940
so let's collapse the wavefunction one

557
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:32,030
way or the other right figuring I just

558
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,410
wanted to thank you for your

559
00:25:36,670 --> 00:25:35,120
presentation and I hope there are ways

560
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:36,680
you can shout it from the mountain top a

561
00:25:42,490 --> 00:25:39,530
little bit more I'm not a scientist I'm

562
00:25:44,380 --> 00:25:42,500
a practitioner an experiencer and I know

563
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,390
that there's something cultural and

564
00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:46,720
psychological about how practitioners

565
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:48,950
try and think about what it is they're

566
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:51,020
doing imagine right now with the word

567
00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:53,090
Zen is breathing a sigh of relief saying

568
00:25:57,820 --> 00:25:55,700
the word quantum can take over you know

569
00:25:59,440 --> 00:25:57,830
like that because when we try and think

570
00:26:02,080 --> 00:25:59,450
about what we're doing while we're doing

571
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:02,090
it it affects it has an effect on the

572
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:04,910
effect or how well we can do it and I

573
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:08,000
know so many young psychics are

574
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:09,530
developing themselves and if they're off

575
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:11,210
reading too many quantum books it's

576
00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:13,910
affecting how they how well they

577
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:15,350
actually do and how they develop as

578
00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:19,220
human beings so this I breathe a sigh of

579
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:20,990
relief I'm like thank God I can stop

580
00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:23,810
studying constantly and just get back to

581
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:25,460
doing what could I catch early without

582
00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:27,050
analyzing too much so Thanks